Re Safe than Sorry.
- Her response just shows how doctors seem to keep patients illinformed about these tests. Pap smears don't test for HPV Safe than sorry. You probably are infected because 80% of the population is. Having a clear pap test doesn't mean you don't have the virus.
- —Guest Sue
Safe than Sorry!
- I'm glad I've done it. It's a piece of mind; and knowing on a cellular level I'm healthy and safe is a good thing for me and my partner. Knowing whether or not I may have HPV (cancer) for example is supreme - not only for my health, but HPV (in other forms ie. warts) can be spread. The last thing I want on my conscience is that I may have given it. Even though visible signs may not be present, the strain may be and can pass on, creating issues for someone else. After all, I would not want my partner to give it to me, when a woman he may have slept in the past neglected a PAP - then he give it to me. Get checked out! Don't give it! Don't get it! Stop the spread!
- —Guest B.J.L
Not all women want screening tests
- I noticed American women spend a lot of time at the gynaecologist's office. I've never seen one. (I'm 37) No woman uses a gyn as her everyday Dr or sees one routinely. I only see a Dr when I have a health problem. I went recently to get injections because I'm travelling to China next month. I'm never pressured to have anything, not would I allow that to happen. If I wanted the Pill, I can get it easily, nothing invasive is needed. My partner and I use condoms, easy and no side effects. My Dr has raised pap smears in passing, but I'm anti-screening. All screening is a gamble, why expose myself to risk? I prefer to live the old fashioned way and wait for symptoms and deal with real problems, not imaginary ones and suffer treatment for fun. All screening has been oversold to women. Note: Doctors make money from testing! We have a right to our own feelings about cancer tests. Refusing the Pill is a serious thing, the risks of pregnancy are high whereas screening is a gamble.
- —Guest Aimee, Brisbane
I regret not looking for answers earlier
- Thank you for this place full of facts. My daughter had a conization and curette when she was 18 after she had to have a pap test exam before she could get BC pills. I was surprised she needed this treatment but I guess accepted that the doctors must know what they're doing. I'm ashamed I didn't protect my Dr or even advise her to get another opinion. When the guidelines changed recently and it said screening was not advised for women under 21, I quizzed my doctor. I wanted answers and made my way to a forum on the blogcritics site. Devastated beyond words, I read that doctors in England have known for a long time that pap tests are unsafe in women under 25. Many of our doctors are still testing young women and we as mothers can't sit idly by. My daughter has lots of scar tissue and will have problems if she wants children. The trauma of that procedure means she avoids Drs and doesn't want a relationship anymore or children. This is her way of protecting herself from further harm. Gina
- —Guest These sites are SOOO important!!!
Protection means being honest with women
- In my ethics course, we looked at a paper that shows how women are mistaken about this cancer and the pap test. Because there is pressure to test and it's raised often, many women believe this cancer is very common. A survey was taken where women were shown a graph showing the incidence rates for 4 cancers - breast, cervix, lung and bowel, most OVER-ESTIMATED the risk of this cancer. Many thought cervix cancer was more common than bowel or lung. Not true. Women also OVER-ESTIMATED the value and accuracy of paps because the advice we get says paps are important, safe, reliable and will save your life. We don't hear about risks or number of lives saved per number of women tested. This means danger - women placing too much faith in paps, being overly worried by over-detection, ignoring symptoms & making bad decisions for their health. (allowing radical treatment, uninformed and over-testing) http://her.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/18/3/318 This is unfair and risks our health.
- —Guest Jacqueline B
Doctors overuse this test
- "our loose society and morals" Yes, high risk women should look at the benefits of having smears but need to let doctors know they won't allow them to overuse the test. I read in the newspaper that drs are still overusing the test and that risks our health. Even high risk women need to use this test sparingly. Low risk women are in a different group and really our chance of being helped is tiny but we all have to accept risk every time we have this test. I know a 17 year old girl who is about to have a conization. I know she'll be left injured and it is unnecessary. Her Dr should be forced to follow the new recommendations and not carry on doing these harmful things to young girls. Her chance of cancer is 1 in a million and the treatment is too aggressive for moderate dysplasia. By all accounts this test is unsafe before your mid 20's. I agree that women who have lots of risk factors probably should consider the test but like others have said never be refused BC and it's her choice.
- —Guest Tina
not getting checkups
- 1. I'm post menopausal 2. Not sexual active 3. Waste of time and money for older women I think it is wise for sexually active women to get pap smears because our loose society and morals are so weak and the STD rate is only going to rise. Birth control does not totaly stop STDs. If not found early with screenings some STDs go unnoticed and can cause irreversable damage or death.
Time for women to sue...
- I hear men got risk info and a choice about screening because men sued after being left incontinent and/or impotent after treatment for false positives. The current militant, harmful and dishonest system can be stopped by women who've been harmed - SUE - there is no informed consent in any country, one-sided government health sites, brochures and ads - even the fact most mention false negatives (which are not all that common) but not false positives (which are VERY COMMON). There is also rarely a clear idea of risk - they never say 1000 women need regular smears for 35 years to save one woman from cervical cancer, they say something fairly vague like "there has been a 70% reduction in cervical cancer since screening started"...ahhh, 70% of what? Open and shut cases and vast numbers of women would have solid cases against doctors and the govt. It is the only way we can stop this ugly and destructive machine. Hit them where it hurts - their bank balances!
- —Guest Beth (UK)
We're not selling cars
- This cancer is largely preventable, aside from false negatives, but so is bowel cancer as it starts with a polyp that becomes cancerous over the years. There is no real pressure to have bowel screening & doctor's don't refuse drugs UNTIL we have bowel screening - yet bowel cancer is COMMON and takes the lives of lots more people and bowel screening doesn't produce huge numbers of false positives. My feeling: in the chase to reduce the death rate from this fairly rare cancer, we've forgotten the basics, human and women's rights. If this cancer is reduced down to near zero, is that really a success if we've harmed the majority of women in the process? Many of these posts show the impact of this screening test being forced or pushed onto women. There IS dishonesty with this testing. I compared my pap smear brochure with the facts taken from 5 medical journal articles and it was like they were talking about 2 different things. How is that right/fair? Puff & spin 4 us, facts 4 men Drs
- —Guest Megan
Sorry, this isn't what we intended...
- Hi everyone, I was passionate about the Australian program once, but somewhere along the way things have gone wrong. This test was intended to be an offer to women, but because this is one of the rarer cancers, we were aware at the beginning that a large part of the population would have to be screened to have any affect on the death rate. Sadly, this meant tweaking the truth, exaggerating the risk of this cancer, pushing aside individual risk and choice and using GP's to "recruit" women and pay them for their trouble. We also did not tell women about false positives and excessive interventions (always unpleasant, but also sometimes leave women worse off) We did give info on false negatives because it was useful to get women to come back. I started to feel this program was wrong and not what it was intended to be; a choice for women. I've had nothing to do with the program for a few years now and as there is no honest info available, I won't recommend it to any woman.
- —Guest GMcC
You don't know the facts!
- I agree with most of these comments. My husband and I traveled to Helsinki recently for a wedding. Women talk about these things and I left that country really angry at the lies we're been told about this cancer and testing. Dr's scare-mongering! This test has been used against women and not in our better interests. In Finland there is an honesty that is totally lacking here, doctors are respectful and committed to THEIR PATIENT'S interests. Since returning I've dropped the annual gyn exam that does little more than cause humiliation, discomfort/pain and harms many of us. Smears are a thing of the past for me. Had I known the truth, I would never have agreed to them, they have been a burden for me. We get propaganda from self-interested groups, not the facts and free-will for women is non-existent. I'm sorry I've been trusting and ignorant. The harm hasn't been too great, many of my friends were not as lucky, a few have had issues with miscarriages and prem babies after biopsies.
- —Guest Rosalynne
Educate and protect yourself
- I don't understand how BC got tied up with cancer screening. Our doctors certainly don't require it, but they do seriously pressure women. I find it amazing that a refusal means a waiver is produced for the woman's signature. She is also told the risk she's taking not having screening YET never told of the uncommon nature of this cancer OR the risks OF testing. All one-sided and designed to scare women into testing. No greater fuss is made about anything, but money is a powerful incentive for doctors. I've always known this concern was about bank account balances and not cancer. My husband didn't want prostate cancer screening and no waiver was produced even though that cancer is very common, but doctors don't get money for testing and hitting targets. No money = no pressure = doctors couldn't care less. More women need to stop being docile ignorant lambs - get online, get the facts and take charge. At least test sensibly, if you want to test at all. Storm in a teacup if you ask me.
- —Guest Joan
It doesn't work for every woman
- I lost faith in this test. I know it saves some lives and that's a great thing for those women. It is imperfect though and causes lots of misery. I have never had a normal pap test, never. The first when I was a virgin at 18 was highly abnormal and I had a colposcopy and biopsy. It went on for a few years ending in a conization. That was major and really a scary and bad time of my life. I could see my entire life was going to be spent being tested and retested, more colposcopies and biopsies. No cancer, pre-cancer or dysplasia was found in my biopsies, all normal tissue. You kind of wonder what it's all about after a while. My doctor wanted me to keep going but what was the point when it all felt like a futile painful exercise. I don't test anymore. I've tested enough and don't think it is helpful for every woman. Anyway, I don't think for me it was worth the misery. There are many things that don't make sense to me with this test.
- —Guest Confused
Do you know enough about this test?
- It is only fair to require something for the Pill if it is necessary for the safety of the woman or clinically required. My doctor told me paps are not required for the Pill. I don't avoid paps, I have chosen not to have them. It is very hard for women to get a real overview of this test. Most of the articles that give you the facts are hard for an ordinary woman to access. Now we have the Internet it is easier, but many of the important facts are found in medical journals and unless you subscribe, you're locked out and its doctors talking about the risks of testing amongst themselves. I don't accept that women should be locked out of discussions about risk. This is my body after all. My research was prompted after my closest friend had a breakdown after repeated LEEP. Why? She was 21 and a virgin. It shouldn't be hard for women to get the facts and doctors must be forced to accept that not every woman will want to screen, why should that mean they can't get the Pill?
- —Guest Carly
Paying for smears!
- We've hit rock bottom when it comes to unethical conduct by doctors here in New Zealand. The Hamilton district is paying women $10 for a smear. I kid you not. The payments apply for smears and not PSA blood tests/mammograms, just testing for quite a rare cancer. Talking about informed consent and then paying for smears shows the level of disrespect for women in this country. Our doctors receive performance bonuses for smear-taking and paying women still means a healthy profit. The shattering thing is that everyone seems to accept this conduct without a peep of protest. If women MUST test to bring down the already small death rate, this is an unsuitable screening test. We don't press on and coerce, pay, scare or pressure women to test. Tests are imperfect and carry risks and not every woman will want to have a Pap, just as not every man will want PSA testing. This is not about health, this is about money and trying to make a bad taxpayer-funded screening test work.
- —Guest Jacqueline, NZ